Anyone have any questions for the flow battery industry players?

[kirk@social.coop]

Anyone have any questions for the flow battery industry players? At the world's biggest flow battery event at the moment! Vanadium, iron, organic systems, system integrators, electrode/membrane/pump manufacturers... #EnergyStorage #batteries #GridStorage #FlowBatteries #Energy

[mtnrbq65@social.vivaldi.net]

@kirk

It always feels like it is just around the corner, but then it isn't ️
Was looking at redflow zinc bromine batteries, but then they went bust.

My question is, will it ever be suitable and economic for residential or community use, and if so, when?

[owiecc@en.osm.town]

@kirk Are commercial systems being deployed? At what scale and for whom? What future applications will be enabled by the progress in flow batteries?

I am really interested from the power electronics side of the field, i.e. if I ask for a grant that includes a flow battery with some power electronics component who will be my consumer?

[kirk@social.coop]

@owiecc stream of consciousness reply: haven't seen anyone here interested in residential scale systems, major VRFB company Infinity is doing 4 MWh and above, many companies doing larger, customers are large businesses, public institutions, utilities, increasingly datacenters

[kirk@social.coop]

@owiecc one industry stack developer noted "absolute lack of a command-and-control system for flow battery management of pump control, voltages, temperatures, etc" ie the industry is suffering there. Maybe a spot for open source?

[kirk@social.coop]

@owiecc @altbot Flex base Invinity GWh-scale AI datacenter project in Switzerland recently breaking ground

[altbot@fuzzies.wtf]

Provided by @altbot, generated privately and locally using Gemma4:26b

@kirk A photograph shows a presentation slide titled "Conclusions" displayed on a large screen. The slide contains bulleted text stating, "VFBs are uniquely positioned for critical infrastructure and data centres" and "Strengths: safety, long duration, lifetime throughput, flexibility, resilience, LCOS." Under the heading "GWh-scale is achieved by:", it lists "Value chain," "Modular design," "Standard power electronics," "Robust and Secure Control System," "Industrial delivery capability," and "Bankable project structures." The slide also states, "Reference projects such as FlexBase are critical to accelerating scaling-up and adoption," and features a photograph of a group of people standing in a line outdoors against a background of hills. Large text at the bottom reads "[GWh-scale VFBs are happening NOW]," and the "INVINITY ENERGY SYSTEMS" logo is visible in the top right corner.

Energy used: 0.361 Wh

[nadia_avva]

@kirk@social.coop Which of these battery technologies is ready to scale? Does the proximity to some industries matter? For example I am wrking on offshore wind and investigating ports at the moment. I wonder if local port industries could help battery development.

[owiecc@en.osm.town]

@kirk Sad there is no residential units but I guess maintenance is not easy so bigger units are preferable.

Is anyone interested in e.g. ferries? Would simplify charging a lot. Marine people understand fluids and can easily crane a container with charged electrolyte on board. If you see anyone who'd be interested in making a pilot please forwards my contact to them . We have experience in grid side infrastructure and we have marine partners.

[kirk@social.coop]

@owiecc KemiWatt in France I heard may have a marine project? They aren't here though. I will send projects your way if I hear of any though! Though at that scale it's mostly companies doing things in-house as I can see.

And from a CEO, I was told "why sell 10,000 small units in a highly regulated environment when I can sell 1 large battery to a utility and be done for the year"

[bipolaron@scholar.social]

@kirk I'm slightly mystified that since I first heard about these 15 years ago there are somehow no major installations that I've heard of at least. Not sure if they're just not making the news...

They're just obviously such a good way to handle capacity vs power rating in theory, are Li-ion and other batteries just that cheap?

I would love any details you come across about actual installed capacity of significant size anywhere on Earth.

[kirk@social.coop]

@bipolaron this map is from 2020 so out of date but has some: https://flowbatteryforum.com/where-are-flow-batteries/

[kirk@social.coop]

@bipolaron I'll post a little recap of the conference with my general impressions after it's over!

[Guest]

@bipolaron @kirk This project in Switzerland is currently building a 2.1 GWh capacity / 1.2 GW output redox-flow battery. Scheduled to go online in 2029, and by their own PR material "the largest in the world". https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/climate-solutions/switzerland-builds-worlds-most-powerful-redox-flow-battery/91181119